Is this guild going to make Progress?

summary:

Please can I have your points of view here!!!

Is this guild going to make Progress?

Ittybitty 1213878159|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

The question is: Is this guild making progress?
I would like your opinions please.

1. We have several Unity raids set up normally per week, these days are Sunday, Tuesday and Wednesday nights from 8:30 - 12.00 pm.

• Is this to many raids?
• Do people find it hard to turn up at these times?
• Do problems with Group calendar hinder sign ups?

2. DKP how does that effect your willingness to raid?

• Is the lack of DKP points stopping you from raiding with the guild?
• Do you feel that you may miss out on items because of your lack of DKP if you bid on them?

3. Are there any other issues that may be effecting you, that you feel is being over looked?

If you could, I would like some constructive ideas and your opinions so that we can try to improve or talk to you about this.
Itty =)

Re: Is this guild going to make Progress?

Moriath 1214175806|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Hi Itty

No one seems to have replied to your post yet.

I guess one of the questions you need to ask is what does unity want to be.

A raid guild or a social guild that raids sometimes.

From what I see of unity when i started it was the former, however, it seems it is being guided in the latters direction.

It also depends on what you mean by progress … more or further into the raids ? or more and better relationships between guild members ?

I think the DKP situation is some what stagnated (sp) cause those who have mains that raid a lot have nothing really they want to spend them on cause the only improvements are t5 or t6 which are really tough to get and those who dont have them dont want to raid cause they think they get out rolled all the time.

IF we were a raiding guild that raided every night and therefore got through the big raids like ssc the eye and the new place on sunwell island then we would have points for the experienced raiders to spend. But as it is its maggie gruuls etc so those with high specc'd toons dont have anything to spend them on so they then wat to take alts to equip them.

Because the guild is a social structured guild rather than an out and out raiding guild it has to cater for newbies (no offense intended) to the raids to equip up. This means that more equiped players are needed to make these raids a success but a lot of the less equiped players are not yup to the SSC etc level. Meaning that the better equiped players get huge amounts of dkp to spend and it takes the lesser equiped players more time to catch up with them.

Now theres no easy solution i think unity needs to decide what it is as at the moment its somewhere in the middle.

I think the T4 mobs are within most guilds reach but to do t5 or t6 then you are going to have to specialise. you might get the odd boss now and then but not consistently.

And depending on which way you go you have to recruit accordingly .. so for the ssc raids instead of new ppl to gear up for kara etc.

Then you need to spend time weeks .. etc to get the particular dungeons cleared. So you dont raid any other 25 man except ssc or the eye or what ever for a month like 4 times a week or something to get experience and geared up.

If we play with them once or twice a week then it wont work.

But the UNITY is becomiung a raiding guild rather than a social guild .. so as i said before it all depends on what unity wants to become and at the moment i think its a half way house with some ppl happy some not cause it definitions of what it wants are not clear to all

Well thats my 2 cents worth or whatever

It comes from being a GM in previous games and playing a lot of MMO's

There are just some parts of the game that will be out of reach to all but the most didcated guilds and UNITY has to decide if it wants to be that :)

Re: Is this guild going to make Progress?

Flameshield 1214317698|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Feel free to respond!! , i think moriath is right we are at a crossroads, now wich choises do we make?

Re: Is this guild going to make Progress?

Cutsdean 1214382075|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Hey all

Well, I am currently on sabbatical with regards to WoW, I was finding it hard to get motivated. However, at the moment, 3/4 weeks after logging off for the last time I am resisting the temptation to return ;-). As a result you can't take my comments seriously but maybe have a read. I have just cut and paster the original email and added comments.

1. We have several Unity raids set up normally per week, these days are Sunday, Tuesday and Wednesday nights from 8:30 - 12.00 pm.

Is this to many raids? No, to be honest I think it's not enough even for a social guild. There are 7 possible raiding nights, we should use at least 4 of them as a miminim. We should completely scrap Kara runs (pugs can get through in 3 hours now), and make SSC, TK, Gruuls and Mags weekly without fail. Hence, SSC day one, then have a follow up after a Gruuls run.
Do people find it hard to turn up at these times? Personally I did, I tended to be busy on Sunday nights (big 25 maners) but around for crappy kara! The times shouldn't be an issue, it would be 7:30pm for UK chaps at that would be the earlest as east of that is earlier.
Do problems with Group calendar hinder sign ups? Never ended up using it because it is unrealiable, a website based system is probably the way to go. Being able to see who is coming and who isn't through a simple PhP programme is who I have seen most guilds do things. GC has the potential to being great but it is too buggy and needs everyone to be up to date……yeah thats gonna happen with unity!
2. DKP how does that effect your willingness to raid? *cough….itty knows my thoughts here ;-) but basically yes, being 150 points beind a fellow class member not to mention fellow tier token classes puts you a long way down the pecking order.
Is the lack of DKP points stopping you from raiding with the guild? As before, yes, I just got fed up with not having a hope of getting a tier 5 bit of gear.
Do you feel that you may miss out on items because of your lack of DKP if you bid on them? I would only be biding on T5 gear as most my stuff is top line anyway. so i know i will miss out on gear from now till expansion due to being so far behind. Expansion = November, 4 chances a month on average to get a T5 bit of gear (thats being opptomistic!) 5 months x 4 = 20 drops. I am about 40th in my tier token group = no hope. Lets face it there will be only a small percentage of people who will get items they need from now onwards and they will be the folks with 200 DKP points atm. Grats on them getting that much but it does mean that it is at the expense of a large group of guildies, I am not sure that holds firm to the principles of the guild.

3. Are there any other issues that may be effecting you, that you feel is being over looked? burning when i pee…. Stress…. oh…WoW, probably but since I'm not online atm I don't know if they still exsist.

God Bless and hope you are all well.

Scott

Re: Is this guild going to make Progress?

Cutsdean 1214382144|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Oh and btw, shame on all the people who haven't responded. Moriath…well done!

Think the lack of responce shows something about the current guild members.

Re: Is this guild going to make Progress?

Stelliosii 1214382389|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Agreed, we have to make some choices. I think this is very much a numbers problem. We dont have enough people at the right stages (gear experience etc) and we lack numbers in some classes (Locks spring to mind here). We have started the holiday season so some will be on holiday, some are simply taking a 'break' and others have not been online for other reasons. Greater numbers would resolve this problem simply because we would be able to cover those that were away.

We have some choices to make… We could make the guild much more raid centric and less social so that raids get attendance, or we can continue to recruit and try to get through this period as best we can.

It's my belief that we can get through this, we have recruited and will continue to do so. People are starting to catch up gear wise so will be ok for the higher instances.

My advice ? Stay positive and and keep doing what we have been doing and things will work out. People will come back back (from holiday, rests and other) and we will have gained new players, existing players are gearing up.

Flamey will be sexy, Lucklas will be sticky, Itty will be windy and I will be an old pervert so things will progress well :-)

Re: Is this guild going to make Progress?

Ittybitty 1214398877|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Thank god some of you have responded, I was starting to wonder if the guild was asleep!!! Come on the rest of you guys/ gals, you must have something to say….Can't make improvements unless you do =P

Re: Is this guild going to make Progress?

Janisk 1214424863|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Ok Itty calm down I'll respond :)

I agree with Cuts in most of the things he said and I can share the feeling around the DKP and T5, I look now and think I have two chances of T5 and one of them is called Bob, but then I play this game for the fun most of the time and am aware that come the expansion most of the present gear will be upgradeable.
My personal view is that Unity is at a crossroads it still wants to be a social Guild but is slowly facing up to the reality that to progress in T5 it has to be raiding Guild. Which way it goes is up to the leadership however I can see a slow leaching of players to T5 and T6 guilds in the near future (a similar thing happened to my old Guild, SOE, when Kara started it ripped the Guild to pieces).

So in short I am no fan of DKP however I can see and understand the reasons behind it.
Raid times are fine and I’m hoping to be more available during the weeks now.
Group Calendar does its job…..just.

Apologies if I seem to have repeated what has been said before….but at least it proves I read the site…:)))

Janisk

Re: Is this guild going to make Progress?

nightshell 1214472471|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

I agree with Stelli (/blush). I think its good to recruit ppl. But I also think the lack of ppl is a bit of a season problem, so maybe less raids in the summertime. But this also includes no complaining about too much hunters (or other classes) when holidays are over and everybody starts to raid again. I also think that we can make it if we stay positive, but thats easy to say for a hunter who doesn`t raid much ;)
So all the others keep the spirit!

Re: Is this guild going to make Progress?

Moriath 1214481776|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

how about capping the max dkp you can earn my stop some of the problems or allieviate them some

Re: Is this guild going to make Progress?

Olly 1214493540|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Unfortunately, you can't really cap the amount of dkp you earn. You would end up with a situation where say half the players are capped at 150dkp, an item drops that five of them want, so they have to roll for it instead. That's just reverting back to the old method of no dkp. People will start to complain that they never win the roll.

We will never make all the members happy, all of the time.

Frankly, I don't care whether we have dkp or not. Getting loot is not top of my agenda. I enjoy raiding for the company and the success.

Re: Is this guild going to make Progress?

Stelliosii 1214493713|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

mmh…company…

Re: Is this guild going to make Progress?

Hoobert 1214508166|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

I think the the DKP set up in Unity is nice as well as the social aspect of the guild. I think Moriath's idea of concentrating on one area to raid for a month would be nice to get people geared up for other raids. I like the number of set raids / days that are set up at the moment. Alternatively if people are not signing up on 25 man raids would be to raid 25 man instances once a week - Sunday probably being best day for 25 man and doing smaller raids on Monday and Wednesday. Also I don't think that smaller raids should be set on GC by individuals on a night set up for a 25 man guild raid.

Re: Is this guild going to make Progress?

Ittybitty 1214566644|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Unfortunately your right Olly DKP can't be capped…and yes we should be having fun doing the raids we do and not worrying so much about what drops…It took me over a year with Itty to get the gear I have, and I can tell you now it was due to unlucky rolls…nothing to do with DKP. If it took to long to get the items I wanted I took alternative ways of gearing up eg: tailoring or heroic badges. There are plenty of members with higher DKP then me. But I know that eventually if I keep raiding I will get the item too.

The biggest problem with this guild has atm is that we have raids but not enough people with the right lvl gear are signing up. And they aren't signing up because of boredom by not getting the right balance in the grps when we do raid, or they have Holidays.
The downside to this problem is that, those that do turn up get disappointed when the raid doesn't go ahead or we try anyway and wipe a lot. Some of them because of this will be tempted to leave the guild or in some cases stop playing all together. As we have seen occur over the last weeks. It is a bit of a vicious circle I am afraid.

I do not think we have to many raids now either, I think we could do more for the raids we do have (had to edit this as it didn't quite say what I meant it too). But it is a hard time to of year to set anything up and hope it will be successful on the numbers needed.

So solution to this problem, well recruit some more maybe, or limp it through the holidays and hope we don't loose to many people in the meantime. Keep those that are here occupied with alternative runs of smaller raids.
Might be a good time to concentrate a bit more on ZA. =P

last edited on 1214581135|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover by Ittybitty + show more

Re: Is this guild going to make Progress?

Lucklas 1214579501|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

I don't think Unity needs to decide where it is at the moment. Yes we are at a crossroads but why do we have to make a choice?
It's natural that it has come to this because we have always been a Social Guild that Raids but people are always still interested in improvements and when content maxs out the only improvements and gear come from the big raids and the 5 Mans/quests become boring. This will all change again when the expansion comes out and we all need to run The Towers of Numbnuts 25 times to get Noobiness to exalted all over.

If we make a choice to become a raiding Guild then it's not just a matter of increasing the raids, we tried that recently with 4 raids in a week and it had awful results. I think it's more about quality than quantity. It's about getting a good rotating group of high end raiders turning up at the raid time with everyone ready to go instead of scrabbling around pulling anyone online out of Alterac to fill the spaces. Preferably they will all have at least read wowwiki on the raid and have brought many pots/food etc. Organisation needs to continue on from a few weeks back where we had class leaders mailing attendees and raid leaders mailing the group to go, Itty did a lot of work on this but can't do it all. People need to be responding in game mail to raid leaders if it is their week and can't go (and it needs to be noted if they don't) or the option to mark yourself as 'not attending' in Group calendar needs to be used as much as possible so replacements can be looked for in advance.
It's been difficult lately perhaps that's seasonal but also perhaps people have been affected by the recent lack of kills and don't even want to go. But also remember that we have lost a lot of good (raiding) players - Golith(+Furshe/Irony/Kaon), Niffie(dkp), Badboris, Morthane(please come back - u know u are ready), Cutsdean, Kyp and now Jimmy has gone too and as Stelli has said there is a very necessary recruitment phase in progress that may help improve the situation, let's give that some time.
The other problem with quantity is that it's a mature guild and for many as much as the game is fantastic and addictive, RL does comes actually first (it does for me) and people are not always available, I know I struggle (as I have 3 young children), Oak has done too, Janisk can only raid Weekends, Cuts couldn't do Sundays, Aurianna is often caught up in Study, a lot of people have got long working days etc. so is it really the best idea to push more raids out? On the other hand being a little more mature (except Stelli ofc) we do have a lot of Quality and intelligent players.

On dkp I really don't like seeing someone 100 pts ahead of me already but I think progression is far more important than a drop and I play for success not gear. However I do want gear because it improves my contribution to that progression but I should get my item eventually and even tho I was 4th in dkp in the guild for pally/shaman/rogues I managed to get Tier5 shoulders first time, that's just the way it can go.

last edited on 1214581781|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover by Stelliosii + show more

Re: Is this guild going to make Progress?

Oak 1214638414|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

@ Cutsdean - 1 - We can't stop Kara as we need to gear up some of the new members we have recruited to fill the gaps left by people leaving/quitting and suspending.
2- There are five Druids with more DKP then me. The last raid I was on one of them was there and the other druids in the raid had less DKP then me. There are eleven people in front of me in my tier group, the same as yours. (and your only actual 15th in the same group so by your own maths, even though it assumes all members would progress logarithmically would have you getting your t5 token in September) Of those eleven, seven were there on the same raid. Assuming the same raid make up, no other DKP earning raids or purchases and a one viable token roll a week I would get my first token in less then two months. Of course my maths here as flawed as yours are as I know that I can not assume the same raid make up or the chance of no DKP earnings or spends happening to the other eleven people or only one token dropping a week, it might drop two or even none.
The point of the rant ? Showing there are to many variables for anyone to say "I'm in x place on the DKP totals it's going to be months for me to get something". There is no need for anyone to get hung up on the entire t4/5/6 tokens, PVP gear is as good, I've turned down normal drops from t4 instances and tokens cause the PVP bit that took a weekend of casual BG's to get is better. T5 ? raid Kara and do the daily heroic, the babge gear in SSO land is as good as t5 better in some cases and one 3 hour Kara run will get you 20% of the way to that nice pair of t5 equivalent gear.
3- Try cranberry juice..
@ Janisk - It's two hope's and one of them is Bob (I mean, come on, Bob Chance sounds like a carry on character). I would also have excepted "and on that day the devil will be ice skating to work" or "about the same chance of getting a straight answer from a politician" :)
@ Stelli - Down Boy /fetches rolled up newspaper and bucket of cold water
@ Itty - Go girl, go girl, tell them how it is!

Due to environmental changes caused by global warming (eat more cows they fart and cause greenhouse gases!!) there has been a severe lack of the right type of frog to make dried frog pills out of. This has resulted in myself and reality once again being in the same room, despite the court order to the contrary. This can only turn out badly for reality…

Re: Is this guild going to make Progress?

Stelliosii 1215170869|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

ROFL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Is this guild going to make Progress?

Jainod 1214686809|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

What a lot of thoughts and responses, where to begin?

I have to say that I think we do need to decide which way the guild is going, to not do so, will just lead to more and more people becoming annoyed/disillusioned/leaving. I think that DKP has had some impact on the numbers of people raiding recently. I can imagine it being very frustrating going to SSC or The Eye and knowing that you have almost no chance of winning any decent loot however there are a lot of people who are attending Kara/Gruul's/Magi in order to help those same people improve there gear. Whatever your position in terms of gear and DKP standing it is always going to mean there are a lot of people who are only there to help others and enjoy the game we all love. It does seem though, that there are not enough people willing to help others to get regular 25 man raids up and running. Partly because they are busy or have been saved to a dungeon by PuGing so they have a chance of gaining loot.

People PuGing raids for loot doesn't sound very social; not having enough characters for a 25 man raid doesn't sound very raid-like. Where does that leave the guild?

I don't honestly know, perhaps we should go back to raiding socially, drop DKP completely, get all our best characters together a couple of nights a week and start hitting either The Eye or SSC twice a week to get to know them. I'm sure there will still be room for the occasional Magi/Gruul run for those that need it and I guess Kara runs will always continue.

Re: Is this guild going to make Progress?

Moriath 1214773639|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

ok maybe what i said before was a little simplistic but at least it kept the ball rolling with the amount of replies now.

I guess there are / will be 3 ways to go …. like lucklas says…

1)we can keep on keeping on till the expansion comes and everything resets to a lvl fest to 80 and then start again and get this in 18 mopnths time and hope theres another expansion coming :)
2) Go raid and mandate that ppl make at least x number of raids a week
3) Go social and forget the t5 and 6 raids and concentrate on getting everyone t4 with maggie and gruuls and kara

My preference would be 1 :) cause its only a few months and most will be over the summer. I saw Kyp decided to hand in his notice today but i think these are ppl that havent played for a few months really and want to cash out rather than partake any more. Which is fine things happen ppl move on. I been guild GM before. Even when the most popular person in the guild leaves it can still survive. Look at Gol leaving we are still here.

Personally i wouldn't want to be in a full raiding guild and be mandated to retain my position and i like ythe raids i have been on.

I think that too this end the raid organisers need to be a little realistic and not get too disappointed in the environment we find ourselves. So that if something doesnt happen or the raid wipes and doesnt complete the target then take it on the chin .. it is the summer ppl go out and go away and have other priorities …

Take it as it comes for a couple months then come September / October look forward to a winter of content (Sorry English joke from the late 70's)

And i dont think Kara should be canned its a nice badge run for those of higher equip and good gear for recruits.

However you need to get a good balance in kara runs of experience and newvies :)

Well footies over now viva espana

Might be able to get on more though hoobies kids still here so pc time is at a premium

Will be back definately at the beginning of August :)

oops typing diarrhea

last edited on 1214773709|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover by Moriath + show more

Re: Is this guild going to make Progress?

Ittybitty 1214809369|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

TBH Jainod I am inclined to agree with what you say there. Not much to add I am afraid.

Re: Is this guild going to make Progress?

Flameshield 1215168984|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

itty: Is this guild going to make Progress?

Flameshield: YES!

itty: why?

Flameshield: Look at last week!! we killed lots a bosses got great loot, and ppl started to spend their DKP.
itty: how did we do that?

Flameshield: well uber leading from lucklass auri (ZA!!! went great thx m8) and myself, but other than thank i think we have setup just the right amount of raids.

itty: but i want more!

Flameshield: Compain to stelli!!

itty: no more raids i mean!!! (btw could u give stelli some advice on that subject aswell, he's a bit selfcentred)

Flameshield: My expierence with doing the inv, is that ppl are online and availeble on sun, tues, and wed most often. Also we should have a good mix of raid we have on grind (gruul, maggy, VR soon imo, hydros) And raid where we will get little loot out off yet (wipe fests).

Itty: but, but… what bout DKP??

Flameshield: if we make sure we get down some bosses per week, than im sure the loot will be spread out evenly…

Itty: why?

Flameshield: Well for instance i got very nice shoulders atm, the t5 are only a little upgrade for me… i aint gonna waste my points on that crab (right stelli ;P) The positive thing bout DKP is that ppl will be selective bout spending it, that gives ppl a chance of good quality items even with little DKP… Now the rly gd items all ppl will roll on and the ppl with the highest DKP wins… now isnt that fair???

Itty: Aw flamey ur so enlightent…

Flameshield: i know, i know, i wish i could write a flawless sentense though… i apologise for all the errors =(

Re: Is this guild going to make Progress?

Stelliosii 1215170978|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

…/lick

Re: Is this guild going to make Progress?

Stelliosii 1215184821|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

what is raiding ?
What is this Dee Kay Pee thing ?
Who is Tier5 ?

Re: Is this guild going to make Progress?

Ittybitty 1215248696|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

ROFL, I don't remember this interview…Did you drug me again Flamey? or was I just talking in my sleep?

Re: Is this guild going to make Progress?

Oak 1215261919|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Talking in your sleep.. well either there is something that you need to explain to Stelli or your saying Flamey's voice sends you to sleep! Naughty gnomes, naughty!

Re: Is this guild going to make Progress?

Ittybitty 1215301650|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

my answer is: hehehehehe gnomes do what gnomes do, and explain to whom?? Stelli did you say? ermmmm, personally I think it is High time he explained to moi!!! =PPP Now there is some explaining to do I think. One wonders if one should take it seriously whatever he may explain.

last edited on 1215301796|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover by Ittybitty + show more

Re: Is this guild going to make Progress?

Olly 1216282599|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

One month on since you posted this thread Itty, how do you feel now?

:-)

Re: Is this guild going to make Progress?

Stelliosii 1216285321|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

she feels mmh……
i suspect this is not what you meant…erm…hehe….*BLUSH !!*……why is Itty hitting me ?